Spanish press reports prior warnings about the line's safety
4 Oct 29 7:14 AM · 10d ago · 41 articles · 7 videos · 7 posts · 10 comments · 7 sources · development 4 of 8
Spanish outlets published the first revelations that the Madrid-Seville line had been flagged as unsafe before the collision occurred.
Óscar Puente Spanish Transport MinisterRenfe State-operated rail companyIryo Private rail operatorMarisa Liebana Relative of a victim
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What was reported 1 claim about this development
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first by Le Monde EN, 10d ago
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What people said 11 voices · verbatim
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Whose negligence, though? "The system" isn't just the LZB equipment - the train dispatcher is just another cog inside the same system, and should be expected to occasionally fail just like every mechanical part.This isn't a game of Hot Potato where the last person touching it goes to jail for gross negligence. You have to look at it through a…
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I mean, the incident was awful, but it wasn't the trains or the rails which failed. It was mostly a protocol error as the AVE train was given permission to go ahead at regular speed when the protocol inforced a maximum of 40 kph under those circumstances.
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Spain train crash death toll climbs to 69 as crews clear debris https://www. byteseu.com/2482978/ # Spain
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> That’s why people here, when they hear the fire alarm they just wait for it to go offThis literally happened to me last night, I was having dinner at my apartment, and suddenly I start hearing a smoke alarm, but not quite inside the apartment, I just kept having dinner thinking "bah, someone probably burned a toast".Then it wont stop, I walk to…
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Reading the text it seems to me this is due to a very widespread issue in Spain and other southern European countries: people don’t care about the warnings because there are too many false positives.That’s why people here, when they hear the fire alarm they just wait for it to go off: the probability that it is actually a fire is minuscule… but…
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I would argue that we should look at systems-level explanations. The human factor is so glaring we can get caught up in it. There are what, 50?, high speed trains in movement in Spain at the same time. Even GPS + Starlink + 1 monitor (is that 50k€?) could have prevented this. But it happened, and the question is what is going on with train…
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The level of human negligence here is astounding. The system did exactly what it was supposed to (lock the train down if the track can't be confirmed clear), and then a human controller ordered the crew to override the system, and ordered them to proceed at an unsafe speed towards a similarly disabled train?
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It's incredible the minister didn't resign after the January crash and I doubt he will now either. I understand that perhaps the problem started in the control centre but surely at the end of the day the minister is responsible - they don't get paid a fortune just to pass the blame on to the workers.
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Something similar is happening in my region after the flood that happened two years ago: The alarm was raised late; Now, even mild rain is triggering an alert.Guess whats the consequence of that? Less and less people pay attention to the alerts.
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Because they don't get held responsible enough for bypissing procedures. Some system are too complex for fully automated operarions, and the human need to play along.Safety culture is blameless, but only if everyone plays along.
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It just means that a false positive rate is as dangerous as a false negative rate. Just issuing a warning doesn't come for free when you are designing a security system.
All 8 developments of Spain train crash toll hits 69; minister blames controller… →
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