Part of The AI Control Crisis · 11 stories · since Sep 4 · newest 30m ago
OpenAI's math scoops spark mathematician revolt over 'stolen' proofsOpenAI confirms progress on a second Millennium Prize problem
3 Sep 10 · 14d ago · 9 articles · 11 posts · 28 comments · 5 sources · development 3 of 8
Following NYT reporting on the Buckmaster clash, OpenAI states it has made substantial progress on another Millennium Prize problem beyond the completed Navier-Stokes work, confirming earlier rumors.
“since the completion of Navier-Stokes, we have made substantial progress on another Millennium Prize problem”
OpenAITristan Buckmaster NYU mathematics professorLevent Alpöge Mathematician, Buckmaster's collaboratorAndreas Thom MathematicianOpenAI AI companyJames Robinson Mathematician, University of Warwick
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What was reported 1 claim about this development
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first by New York Times, 14d ago
What people said 24 voices · best of 30 · verbatim
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The whole "OpenAI uses mathematicians' prompts to claim their models solved maths problems" seems to be a pattern... (Article title: Mathematicians want proof OpenAI didn’t use their work) https://www. theverge.com/ai-artificial-int elligence/993263/where-does-openai-get-mathematics-training-data
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This is the second wake up call.Big AI companies (all of Big IT Tech really) are in data gathering and processing business. Also known as “intelligence”.Their final “product” is not just a standalone ML model. They don’t need your data just to “improve their products and services”. They build a whole ecosystem and infrastructure around gathering…
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"OpenAI fought dirty on career-making math problem, says NYU mathematician"
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I've been wondering whether AI really is improving rapidly at open problems or we're being fooled.- OpenAI invites researchers to use their models, in fact giving at least 100,000 researchers free access[1], but there are also those that pay- Internal OpenAI models are reportedly solving open problems at a surprisingly fast rate[2]- But…
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Here is some (adjacent, but relevant) context, which has been posted elsewhere but I think is worthwhile to mention again here:https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117237320796901560Especially in recent years the mathematics community has worked very much in good faith, and a lot of effort is spent trying to give appropriate credit for ideas. Even when…
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I think people are focusing on the training data issue too much. If the data was contaminated, I can still blame that on negligence.But, at least with the Navier-Stokes solution, it's clear [^1] that they learned that Alpöge and Buckmaster were getting close to a solution and learned of the general approach they were taking. Only after learning…
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This. I don't like people using others' work without giving proper credit. At the same time, people are jumping too quickly to defend these mathematicians without any solid evidence of their claims, while framing this as some sort of "Evil AI Company vs human mathematicians".In the best case scenario, the mathematicians were standing on the…
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If you run a model locally to work on your area of expertise in mathematics, and you make a discovery, haven't you stood on the shoulders of others that created that model you are using? Playing devil's advocate here, are we only in for human collaboration, but not machine contributions in this case? Scholars get cited, but do they normally get…
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We shouldn't forget that the only way this unpublished research is supposedly getting into the training data in the first place is because the researchers making the accusations were conversing with ChatGPT in the process of doing their own research on these problems.But if they are saying this contaminated the model's training data with knowledge…
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1. Tristan's research direction was known to only a handful of other academics. It might help if you can be more specific regarding the origin of the contamination.2. If someone did come out and claim that their ideas were used without proper attribution in Tristan's work, then of course, that deserves consideration.3. What you're suggesting seems…
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If OpenAI remained a full nonprofit looking to build an "OPEN" AI for the benefit of all humanity (not only the US or a few shareholders), I would have been happy to share my code, my work, and even label their data... This said, I don't blame them. It's a difficult mission to remain a nonprofit and, at the same time, have the required capital…
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All the big AI labs were built on stealing IP; who is surprised that's still how they operate? And who believes, or has ever believed, their promises that your data is private and not logged, etc.?The big AI labs are not trying to advance humanity, they are in this for the money, and as most (all?) private companies they don't care about ethics at…
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Why are people here jumping so quickly to conclusions? I have no doubt OpenAI is capable of doing this, but right now there's no credible evidence, only claims.This kind of "they stole from me through AI training!" accusation will soon start being used against other AI users, not necessarily the providers.All it will take is a mastodon post. And…
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It's a little like we've gone back to the problem of the customer becoming the product.If I were a mathematician I would not my unpublished work to go into the hands of a competitor.If I were a lawyer I wouldn't want private details of my defense to be made available to the prosecution. Anonymous or otherwise.I wouldn't want the plot to an…
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When Thom, the mathematician who now alleges plagiarism, posted his digestion [1] of OpenAI's construction of a non-sofic group, he does not mention the proof being familiar. He even calls the crucial argument clever, without noting he thought of it first. [1]
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This is actually bigger than that. This is an "AI is eating the world" situation.The math community was one of the first to be affected because RLVR makes Math an easier target for AI. We witness AI eating the math community.Software community was also affected due to similar and other reasons. All other professional communities will face a…
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It’s crazy to me that companies/researchers share important data with these AI labs, you’re basically giving them your secret sauce which they then share with all of your competitors via training on conversations. At the same time I don’t really know alternatives other than a slightly less than frontier local LLM. Not sure how good they are at…
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If I understand correctly OpenAI cannot provide it. Because the models are essentially black boxes, especially this far after the fact, determining if this result built on training data based on conversations about the problem is impossible. So unless they can prove those conversations were never used for training then there’s no way to know.
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I was trying to patent our maintenance tracking algorithm, which produces guaranteed weight loss or gain within 2–4 weeks by producing accurate calorie and macro targets for people to follow; in our test, it beats GLP-1s like Ozempic, Tirzepatide, and Retatrutide in results.But later we found that algorithm and math cannot be patented.
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It is suspicious that OpenAI decided to generate 300 billion output tokens from a model still in training, right after learning there was a credible chance that a major math proof was in that model’s training data. Obviously there are reasonably plausible explanations for each step, but it does sort of feel like parallel construction.
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I find it rather sad that the original posts have been posted on an open site, where anyone can read them, while the HN post points to an increasingly dubious site that doesn't even show the post unless you create an account and log in.I thought the spirit of the open web would be more important to this community.
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> they could be significantly piggybacking on human progress,This is AI in a nutshell, its a plagiarism machine. An abstraction layer between vast amounts of stolen human-generated data that filters out the liabilities and accountability for that original theft. Its an IP laundering system.
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This is a really weak claim. The evidence they offer is just "someone somewhere says they had a discussion with AI about the topic at some point".They don't even claim to have had a proof, only to have been working on it.
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Am I missing something obvious? Isn’t this just a simple DB query to see the state history of the “Data Controls” → “Improve model for everyone” toggle in the settings? Just report whether that was ever on and over what time period.
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