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ScienceQuiet 7d · day 8

How the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve Stores Oil in Salt Caverns

A viral engineering explainer on salt-dome oil storage draws technical corrections and elaboration from Hacker News readers.

What to know

  • The SPR holds 714 million barrels across 60 salt caverns at four Gulf Coast sites, each cavern holding about 10 million barrels — more than the entire Navy Red Hill facility.
  • Salt domes were chosen over surface tanks (vulnerable to attack, land-intensive) and excavated rock facilities like Red Hill (costly, prone to groundwater contamination that forced Red Hill's closure).
  • HN readers corrected and extended the post: one flagged an apparent land-area miscalculation, others detailed how presaturating injection water with salt prevents cavern-wall erosion.
  • A recurring open question in the discussion is how much oil must remain in the reserve to keep it operational, and how cavern degradation over repeated cycling is managed.

The dispute Whether the article's 45,000-acre land-area figure for surface-tank storage is accurate, versus a commenter's recalculation putting it near 2,260 acres. · positions read across 22 posts and comments

some voices

The engineering explanation is elegant and the piece is a good example of technical writing for non-experts.

  • “Makes you appreciate the physical infrastructure challenges, not just software. Bet the data logging and monitoring systems are ancient but robust.”

    Ellis_dev · Hacker News ↗
many voices

The article leaves out important technical detail on how salt caverns actually preserve their structural integrity, which commenters supply.

  • “Salt contains the oil and helps seal small fractures. The rock salt surrounding the SPR's caverns has extremely low permeability, meaning fluids have very little ability to pass through it.”

    anigbrowl · Hacker News ↗
some voices

A specific figure in the post (land area for surface tank storage) appears to be a calculation error.

  • “The Math does not hold up. 300 feet diameter circular area is 1.62 acres. So at max you would need about 1130 x 2 = 2260 acres and not 45000 acres as projected!”

    tmellon2 · Hacker News ↗

johnjwang Author of the engineering explainerU.S. Navy Operator of the Red Hill fuel storage facilityanigbrowl HN commenternostrademons HN commentertmellon2 HN commenter

How it unfolded 3 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump articlespostscomments

Peak 6 pieces in two hours at Sep 16, 7 PM; 27 pieces over 9 days (2 articles · 3 posts · 22 comments) Sep 15, 5 PM — 3 pieces · 2 articles · 1 post — Newswires 2, Hacker News 1Sep 15, 7 PM — quietSep 15, 9 PM — quietSep 15, 11 PM — quietSep 16, 1 AM — quietSep 16, 3 AM — quietSep 16, 5 AM — quietSep 16, 7 AM — quietSep 16, 9 AM — quietSep 16, 11 AM — quietSep 16, 1 PM — quietSep 16, 3 PM — quietSep 16, 5 PM — 5 pieces · 1 post · 4 comments — Hacker News 4, Mastodon 1Sep 16, 7 PM — 6 pieces · 6 comments — Hacker News 6Sep 16, 9 PM — 3 pieces · 3 comments — Hacker News 3Sep 16, 11 PM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 17, 1 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 17, 3 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Sep 17, 5 AM — 3 pieces · 3 comments — Hacker News 3Sep 17, 7 AM — 2 pieces · 2 comments — Hacker News 2Sep 17, 9 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 17, 11 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 17, 1 PM — quietSep 17, 3 PM — quietSep 17, 5 PM — quietSep 17, 7 PM — quietSep 17, 9 PM — quietSep 17, 11 PM — quietSep 18, 1 AM — quietSep 18, 3 AM — quietSep 18, 5 AM — quietSep 18, 7 AM — quietSep 18, 9 AM — quietSep 18, 11 AM — quietSep 18, 1 PM — quietSep 18, 3 PM — quietSep 18, 5 PM — quietSep 18, 7 PM — quietSep 18, 9 PM — quietSep 18, 11 PM — quietSep 19, 1 AM — quietSep 19, 3 AM — quietSep 19, 5 AM — quietSep 19, 7 AM — quietSep 19, 9 AM — quietSep 19, 11 AM — quietSep 19, 1 PM — quietSep 19, 3 PM — quietSep 19, 5 PM — quietSep 19, 7 PM — quietSep 19, 9 PM — quietSep 19, 11 PM — quietSep 20, 1 AM — quietSep 20, 3 AM — quietSep 20, 5 AM — quietSep 20, 7 AM — quietSep 20, 9 AM — quietSep 20, 11 AM — quietSep 20, 1 PM — quietSep 20, 3 PM — quietSep 20, 5 PM — quietSep 20, 7 PM — quietSep 20, 9 PM — quietSep 20, 11 PM — quietSep 21, 1 AM — quietSep 21, 3 AM — quietSep 21, 5 AM — quietSep 21, 7 AM — quietSep 21, 9 AM — quietSep 21, 11 AM — quietSep 21, 1 PM — quietSep 21, 3 PM — quietSep 21, 5 PM — quietSep 21, 7 PM — quietSep 21, 9 PM — quietSep 21, 11 PM — quietSep 22, 1 AM — quietSep 22, 3 AM — quietSep 22, 5 AM — quietSep 22, 7 AM — quietSep 22, 9 AM — quietSep 22, 11 AM — quietSep 22, 1 PM — quietSep 22, 3 PM — quietSep 22, 5 PM — quietSep 22, 7 PM — quietSep 22, 9 PM — quietSep 22, 11 PM — quietYesterday, 1 AM — quietYesterday, 3 AM — quietYesterday, 5 AM — quietYesterday, 7 AM — quietYesterday, 9 AM — quietYesterday, 11 AM — quietYesterday, 1 PM — quietYesterday, 3 PM — quietYesterday, 5 PM — quietYesterday, 7 PM — quietYesterday, 9 PM — quietYesterday, 11 PM — quietToday, 1 AM — quietToday, 3 AM — quiet 123
Sep 16Sep 17Sep 18Sep 19Sep 20Sep 21Sep 22yesterdaynow · 5:51 AM ET
  1. 3

    Reader flags a math error in the article's land-area figure

    Commenter tmellon2 recalculates the acreage needed for 1,130 surface tanks and finds roughly 2,260 acres rather than the 45,000 acres stated in the post, questioning that figure.

    “The Math does not hold up. 300 feet diameter circular area is 1.62 acres. So at max you would need about 1130 x 2 = 2260 acres and not 45000 acres as projected!”
    — tmellon2
    • There was a good comment on r/oil by someone who worked on the engineering for the SPR. Unfortunately it's fallen off the front page and I can't find it now, but:> Also, the more water we pump in, the more salt leeches into the water and the more the bottom of the chamber deforms, creating shear forces in the upp walls that lower its overall…

      nostrademonsHacker News7d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 12 posts in this stretch
    • Hmm...The Math does not hold up. 300 feet diameter circular area is 1.62 acres. So at max you would need about 1130 x 2 = 2260 acres and not 45000 acres as projected !From the post :"300 feet in diameter...""To hold 714 million barrels of oil (the full capacity of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve), you’d need about 1,130 of these tanks. If you use…

      tmellon2Hacker News7d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    • I wondered to what extent they know the size and shape of the cavern at any given time and what they use to monitor it. The answer is apparently sonar, and there are some pretty pictures here:

      georgefrownyHacker News6d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  2. 2

    Commenters elaborate on how salt caverns actually contain oil

    HN users anigbrowl and nostrademons add detail beyond the article on why salt's low permeability and plasticity let it hold oil without a steel lining, and describe how operators presaturate injection water with salt to stop the caverns from dissolving further.

    “Salt contains the oil and helps seal small fractures. The rock salt surrounding the SPR's caverns has extremely low permeability, meaning fluids have very little ability to pass through it.”
    — anigbrowl
    • Salt contains the oil and helps seal small fractures. The rock salt surrounding the SPR’s caverns has extremely low permeability, meaning fluids have very little ability to pass through it. It also doesn’t react with petroleum. Under enormous pressures underground, salt also slowly deforms, which helps close small fractures. The salt itself can…

      anigbrowlHacker News7d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 10 posts in this stretch
    • I also think I've also replied this to you before, but +1 for the GAO report! I use the full report as my personal model yardstick on how I document technical decisions/issues for non-technical people. The PDF is attached here:

      nxobjectHacker News7d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    • I’m certain engineers have considered this, but it doesn’t seem answered anywhere: why not just pump the original brine back in to move around the oil? Wouldn’t that at least prevent eroding the storage unit and causing it to fail?Unrelated: dang, he wasn’t underselling this being a pretty elegant solution! I never would’ve thought of it, for sure.

      kulahanHacker News7d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  3. 1

    Post climbs Hacker News front page

    The article is submitted to Hacker News and gains traction, reaching 167 points and generating dozens of comments; a related HN RSS repost registers separately with 20 points.

    “The actual solution, like many great engineering solutions, is incredibly elegant and simple.”
    — johnjwang, blog author · source
  4. background

    Blogger publishes explainer on SPR salt-cavern engineering — johnjwang publishes a post walking through why surface tanks and excavated rock facilities (like the Navy's Red Hill) don't scale to 714 million barrels, and how the US instead uses solution-mined caverns in Gulf Coast salt domes.

Also covered reported alongside — the timeline has no entry for these yet

  1. first by HN Best, 8d ago · also HN Frontpage

What people are saying 15 voices from 1 site · best of 22 · verbatim

Still unanswered
  • Why not simply pump the original brine back into caverns to move oil without dissolving more salt?
  • How much oil must remain in the reserve to keep it operationally pressurized, and how close to zero can it realistically be drawn down?
  • What happens to the oily water displaced during drawdown — is it treated, evaporated, or reused?