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PoliticsFading · day 6

2nd Circuit upholds warrantless phone searches by border agents

Appeals court rules CBP can search travelers' cellphones without a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion, reigniting a Fourth Amendment fight.

What to know

  • The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that CBP border agents can search the digital contents of travelers' cellphones without a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion.
  • The ruling extends the border search exception to digital devices; critics note the exception's associated enforcement zone covers roughly two-thirds of the US population within 100 miles of a border.
  • Hacker News discussion split between those calling the ruling unconstitutional overreach and those arguing it correctly applies a narrow, historically grounded border-crossing exception.
  • Practical workarounds are circulating, including wiping phones or carrying burner devices before crossing US borders.

The dispute Whether the border search exception, as applied to digital devices and a 100-mile inland zone, is a narrow historical carve-out or an unconstitutional expansion of government search power. · positions read across 35 posts and comments

most voices

The ruling is an unconstitutional gutting of Fourth Amendment protections, especially given the 100-mile zone's reach.

  • “It is insane to me that judges consistently rule that the constitution doesn't apply because there's a "border" within 100 miles.”

    mmh0000 · Hacker News ↗
many voices

The border search exception is narrow and long-established; it applies to actual crossings, not a blanket 100-mile search zone, so the ruling is a defensible legal interpretation.

  • “The border search exemption only applies when someone is actually crossing a border, and it does grant broad authority to search whatever they're carrying with them at the time.”

    Zak · Hacker News ↗
some voices

The practical response is to protect data before traveling — wipe devices, use burner phones, or avoid carrying sensitive information across the border.

  • “So carry a separate device while traveling. Or wipe your phone, then restore after the border.”

    righthand · Hacker News ↗

2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals Federal appeals courtU.S. Customs and Border Protection Federal agency conducting border searchesTrump administration Executive branch overseeing border enforcement

How it unfolded 6 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump articlespostscomments

Peak 15 pieces in two hours at Sep 18, 1 PM; 51 pieces over 6 days (12 articles · 9 posts · 30 comments) Sep 18, 1 PM — 15 pieces · 3 articles · 1 post · 11 comments — Hacker News 12, Newswires 3Sep 18, 3 PM — 10 pieces · 10 comments — Hacker News 10Sep 18, 5 PM — quietSep 18, 7 PM — quietSep 18, 9 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Sep 18, 11 PM — 2 pieces · 1 post · 1 comment — Hacker News 1, Mastodon 1Sep 19, 1 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Sep 19, 3 AM — 6 pieces · 6 articles — Google News 5, Newswires 1Sep 19, 5 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 19, 7 AM — quietSep 19, 9 AM — quietSep 19, 11 AM — quietSep 19, 1 PM — quietSep 19, 3 PM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 19, 5 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Reddit 1Sep 19, 7 PM — 2 pieces · 2 comments — Hacker News 1, Reddit 1Sep 19, 9 PM — 2 pieces · 2 comments — Reddit 2Sep 19, 11 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Sep 20, 1 AM — quietSep 20, 3 AM — 3 pieces · 1 post · 2 comments — Reddit 2, Mastodon 1Sep 20, 5 AM — quietSep 20, 7 AM — quietSep 20, 9 AM — quietSep 20, 11 AM — quietSep 20, 1 PM — quietSep 20, 3 PM — quietSep 20, 5 PM — quietSep 20, 7 PM — quietSep 20, 9 PM — quietSep 20, 11 PM — quietSep 21, 1 AM — quietSep 21, 3 AM — quietSep 21, 5 AM — quietSep 21, 7 AM — quietSep 21, 9 AM — quietSep 21, 11 AM — quietSep 21, 1 PM — quietSep 21, 3 PM — quietSep 21, 5 PM — quietSep 21, 7 PM — quietSep 21, 9 PM — quietSep 21, 11 PM — quietSep 22, 1 AM — quietSep 22, 3 AM — quietSep 22, 5 AM — quietSep 22, 7 AM — quietSep 22, 9 AM — quietSep 22, 11 AM — quietSep 22, 1 PM — 3 pieces · 3 articles — Google News 3Sep 22, 3 PM — quietSep 22, 5 PM — quietSep 22, 7 PM — quietSep 22, 9 PM — quietSep 22, 11 PM — quietYesterday, 1 AM — quietYesterday, 3 AM — quietYesterday, 5 AM — quietYesterday, 7 AM — quietYesterday, 9 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Yesterday, 11 AM — quietYesterday, 1 PM — quietYesterday, 3 PM — quietYesterday, 5 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Reddit 1Yesterday, 7 PM — quietYesterday, 9 PM — quietYesterday, 11 PM — quietToday, 1 AM — quiet 1–56
Sep 19Sep 20Sep 21Sep 22yesterdaynow · 2:59 AM ET
  1. 6

    Wider social media pickup expresses alarm

    The story spread to Mastodon, where a privacy-focused commenter reacted tersely to the ruling's implications.

    “Thanks, I hate it…”
    — evacide
    1. first by inkl, 4d ago · also Reason Magazine, Reason, La Voce di New York, Open Jaw, International Business Times UK

      3 more headlines
    • Thanks, I hate it: https:// lawandcrime.com/high-profile/t he-government-was-entitled-trumps-border-agents-can-now-search-cellphones-without-a-warrant-probable-cause-or-reasonable-suspicion-2nd-circuit-rules/

      evacide@hachyderm.ioMastodon5d ago221▲view on Mastodon ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 14 posts in this stretch
    • People in the USA have more rights in general than people in other democracies. I mean the US is ranked 57th ) for civil liberties. I know that line is parroted a lot but unfortunately that doesn't make it true People in the USA have less rights in general than people in other democracies. And back to my question: genuinely asking is there any…

      BadahBingBadahBoomr/technology3d agoview on r/technology ↗
    • It's the same in other countries like the UK for example.You can get stopped at the border, forced to talk to the border agents, you do not have the right to have a lawyer in the room during the interrogation (although you can have one phone call before your interrogation starts), you do not have the right to refuse to answer questions and they…

      rdm_blackholeHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  2. 5

    Others push back on the 100-mile-zone framing

    A commenter argued the border search exception applies narrowly to actual border crossings and does not grant broad search authority throughout the 100-mile enforcement zone, correcting a widespread misreading in the thread.

    “The border search exemption only applies when someone is actually crossing a border, and it does grant broad authority to search whatever they're carrying with them at the time.”
    — Zak, HN commenter · source
    • > It is insane to me that judges consistently rule that the constitution doesn't apply because there's a "border" within 100 miles.People keep misconstruing this.The border search exemption only applies when someone is actually crossing a border, and it does grant broad authority to search whatever they're carrying with them at the time. The…

      ZakHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 8 posts in this stretch
    • I mean... yea we also have some shaky interpretations of the 1st amendment (see especially, assembly), 2nd, 5th (e.g. the incredible pressure for plea bargaining), 6th (which, paradoxically, is a major reason for aforementioned pressure on plea bargaining, so I kinda get it), 8th given how bad some prisons are, arguably 10th (even if I am…

      dmoyHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    • We gave the government the ability to police itself and there's no punishments for poor rulings.The structure of the Supreme Court is foolish. It made sense initially, having the people who drafted the constitution adjudicate it. But I think it would be better to drop SCOTUS all together, letting the Federal courts sort out their disagreements via…

      mywittynameHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  3. 4

    Travelers describe wiping devices before crossing the border

    Commenters said some companies already issue employees wiped phones or burner devices for US travel, a practice some said predates the Trump administration.

    “I was barred from the US for life - it was said that it could have been much worse.”
    — fsiefken, HN commenter describing a personal border search · source
    • This happened to me last month in Halifax Canada, I wanted to board a transfer flight to Amsterdam, going through Boston. I was stopped as I had salts with me from a buddhist relic I couldn't exactly identify. The machine said it contained a primary explosive (silver azide). I was ordered to give my access code to my iphone and 3 suspicious…

      fsiefkenHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 8 posts in this stretch
    • So the main argument is that in the time that was written and immediately afterwards we can look to see what they mean by that by how it was implemented. At the time it was understood that the government could and would search goods as they enter the country without warrants to enforce things like tariffs. I think that's a fairly reasonable…

      rtkweHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    • This is confusing; what happens to you if you refuse a warantless search of your property?I'm a US citizen returning home. Do they just... send me back out of the country? :) I don't suppose they'd have the grounds to arrest me since there is no law that I can see being broken. I suppose they could keep the device until such time that a warrant…

      gigel82Hacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  4. 3

    Critics call the ruling a gutting of the Fourth Amendment

    Commenters argued the ruling ignores the plain text of the Fourth Amendment by treating the 100-mile border zone, which covers two-thirds of the US population, as a rights-free area.

    “It is insane to me that judges consistently rule that the constitution doesn't apply because there's a "border" within 100 miles.”
    — mmh0000
    • It is insane to me that judges consistently rule that the constitution doesn't apply because there's a "border" within 100 miles.The 4th Amendment says, exactly: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but…

      mmh0000Hacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 3 posts in this stretch
    • The problem with these laws isn't that they can search you at the border. It's that they can search you within 100 miles of the border (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception). The total number of people who live within that zone is 213 Million people, or 2/3 of the total population (

      0xbadcafebeeHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    • The best time to delete all social media accounts and never post anything online with your name attached ever again was 10 years ago. The second best time is right now. This stuff can and will be used against you out of context 10, 20, 30 years into the future.

      ramesh31Hacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  5. 2

    Commenters recount personal border-search experiences

    An HN commenter described being barred from the US for life after border agents searched his phone and found old screenshots about the Iran-Israel war, illustrating the practical stakes of the ruling.

    • So carry a separate device while traveling. Or wipe your phone, then restore after the border. This is just going to lead to a service that does this for you and the overreaching feds won’t be able to do anything about it.And as far as I can tell you still don’t have to give them your pin code.

      righthandHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    1 more of the top 2 · 2 posts in this stretch
    • Customs has always been able to search everything without a warrant or suspicion when crossing the border. I guess this is saying that they can search the digital contents of physical devices/media as well?

      petcatHacker News5d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  6. 1

    Law & Crime coverage spreads to Hacker News front page

    The Law & Crime article on the ruling was posted to Hacker News, drawing hundreds of comments debating the ruling's constitutional basis.

  7. background

    2nd Circuit rules border agents can search phones without cause — The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found that CBP border agents can search the digital contents of a traveler's cellphone without a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion, applying the border search exception to digital devices.

Also covered reported alongside — the timeline has no entry for these yet

  1. first by Times of India, 4d ago · also MobileSyrup

    1 more headline
  2. first by HN Best, 5d ago · also HN Frontpage

and 1 smaller piece

What people are saying 13 voices from 3 sites · best of 35 · verbatim

Still unanswered
  • What actually happens if a traveler refuses to unlock their device for a warrantless search?
  • Do Fourth Amendment protections apply the same way to non-citizens at the border as to US citizens?