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SecurityQuiet 5d · day 15

Canada takes delivery of first F-35s while Ottawa still reviews full order size

The RCAF received its first two CF-35A jets at a U.S. training base even as the government keeps the size of its planned 88-jet buy under review.

What to know

  • Canada has received its first two F-35A fighters, stationed at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona for training rather than in Canada.
  • The planned 88-jet order remains under government review, with reporting across multiple outlets emphasizing the purchase is not finalized.
  • Saab is lobbying for a mixed fleet, offering to build Gripen fighters in Canada alongside the F-35s.
  • Online debate centers on sovereignty and dependence on U.S. software/support versus the F-35's technical superiority over alternatives.

The dispute Whether Canada should prioritize sovereignty by diversifying or canceling the F-35 buy, or accept dependence on the U.S. because the jet is technically superior and a mixed fleet is unaffordable. · positions read across 28 posts and comments

many voices

Canada should cancel or scale back the F-35 order because U.S. control over the jets is a political and sovereignty risk.

  • “I understand the F35 is a great military plane, but I do question the value of it and the need to really have this when Trump & Co can determine if you can even use it at all. I think it is better to abandon this deal and cancel orders”

    Important-Anywhere20 · Reddit ↗
some voices

Claims of a software 'kill switch' are overstated; mission data updates add capability but aren't required for the jet to function.

  • “The aircraft does not require a "phone home" to turn on, or take off, or do anything. It does use mission data files that are produced in the US; these add capability... but are not required for the aircraft to work”

    McFestus · Reddit ↗
some voices

Even if inferior, diversifying suppliers has sovereignty value, since a dependence on a single 30-year U.S. commitment is risky.

  • “Military capability is very often sacrificed in the name of defense sovereignty... The F-35 is a 30+ year commitment to the U.S. Its better to have some options even if they aren't the best ones (IMO).”

    joesph01 · Reddit ↗
some voices

Operating a mixed fleet is unaffordable and the F-35 remains superior to alternatives on capability grounds.

  • “Canada couldn't afford the logistics of operating two different fighter jets... our meager military budget barely keeps the lights on at military bases as it is.”

    the_chin2 · Reddit ↗

Royal Canadian Air Force Operator of the new F-35 fleetMicael JohanssonMicael Johansson Saab Chief ExecutiveMark CarneyMark Carney Canadian Prime Minister (referenced by commenters)Lockheed Martin F-35 manufacturer

Canada takes delivery of first F-35s while Ottawa still reviews full order size
defence-industry.eu

How it unfolded 3 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump articlespostscomments

Peak 10 pieces in 4h at Oct 24, 11 AM; 48 pieces over 15 days (15 articles · 5 posts · 28 comments) Oct 24, 11 AM — 10 pieces · 5 articles · 1 post · 4 comments — Google News 5, Reddit 5Oct 24, 3 PM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Reddit 1Oct 24, 7 PM — 3 pieces · 3 comments — Reddit 3Oct 24, 11 PM — 4 pieces · 4 comments — Reddit 4Oct 25, 3 AM — quietOct 25, 7 AM — 2 pieces · 2 comments — Reddit 2Oct 25, 11 AM — 1 piece · 1 article — Google News 1Oct 25, 3 PM — 7 pieces · 4 articles · 3 comments — Google News 4, Reddit 3Oct 25, 7 PM — quietOct 25, 11 PM — quietOct 26, 3 AM — 8 pieces · 5 articles · 3 posts — Google News 4, Mastodon 2, Newswires 1, +1 moreOct 26, 7 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Reddit 1Oct 26, 11 AM — quietOct 26, 3 PM — quietOct 26, 7 PM — quietOct 26, 11 PM — quietOct 27, 3 AM — quietOct 27, 7 AM — quietOct 27, 11 AM — quietOct 27, 3 PM — quietOct 27, 7 PM — quietOct 27, 11 PM — quietOct 28, 3 AM — quietOct 28, 7 AM — quietOct 28, 11 AM — quietOct 28, 3 PM — quietOct 28, 7 PM — quietOct 28, 11 PM — quietOct 29, 3 AM — quietOct 29, 7 AM — quietOct 29, 11 AM — quietOct 29, 3 PM — quietOct 29, 7 PM — quietOct 29, 11 PM — quietOct 30, 3 AM — quietOct 30, 7 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Reddit 1Oct 30, 11 AM — quietOct 30, 3 PM — 2 pieces · 2 comments — Reddit 2Oct 30, 7 PM — 3 pieces · 3 comments — Reddit 3Oct 30, 11 PM — 3 pieces · 3 comments — Reddit 3Oct 31, 3 AM — quietOct 31, 7 AM — quietOct 31, 11 AM — quietOct 31, 3 PM — quietOct 31, 7 PM — quietOct 31, 11 PM — quietNov 1, 2 AM — quietNov 1, 6 AM — quietNov 1, 10 AM — quietNov 1, 2 PM — quietNov 1, 6 PM — quietNov 1, 10 PM — quietNov 2, 2 AM — quietNov 2, 6 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Reddit 1Nov 2, 10 AM — quietNov 2, 2 PM — quietNov 2, 6 PM — quietNov 2, 10 PM — quietNov 3, 2 AM — quietNov 3, 6 AM — quietNov 3, 10 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Reddit 1Nov 3, 2 PM — quietNov 3, 6 PM — quietNov 3, 10 PM — quietNov 4, 2 AM — quietNov 4, 6 AM — quietNov 4, 10 AM — quietNov 4, 2 PM — quietNov 4, 6 PM — quietNov 4, 10 PM — quietNov 5, 2 AM — quietNov 5, 6 AM — quietNov 5, 10 AM — quietNov 5, 2 PM — quietNov 5, 6 PM — quietNov 5, 10 PM — quietNov 6, 2 AM — quietNov 6, 6 AM — quietNov 6, 10 AM — quietNov 6, 2 PM — quietNov 6, 6 PM — quietNov 6, 10 PM — quietYesterday, 2 AM — quietYesterday, 6 AM — quietYesterday, 10 AM — quietYesterday, 2 PM — quietYesterday, 6 PM — quietYesterday, 10 PM — quietToday, 2 AM — quietToday, 6 AM — quietToday, 10 AM — quiet 123
Oct 25Oct 27Oct 29Oct 31Nov 2Nov 4Nov 6now · 12:58 PM ET
  1. 3

    Saab pitches Gripen for a mixed Canadian fleet alongside F-35s

    Saab offered to build Gripen fighters in Canada, with CEO Micael Johansson seeking political support for a mixed fleet flying alongside the country's F-35s.

    “a military aircraft that needs a heated hangar is fucking crazy for an arctic country.”
    — Ragnarok_del, Reddit commenter · source
    • So what exactly is the mission that F-35 is better for? Deep penetrating strikes in hostile terrain against a modern adversary? Is that what Canada needs? The best defense is a good offense, and the F-35 is essentially the most invisible craft, so yeah, but it's also a massive sensor array. How about air defense against Russian fighters and…

      latebindingr/canada8d agoview on r/canada ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 16 posts in this stretch
    • but some say it's more an issue of piloting skill than the type of aircraft Those aren't opinions you've heard from actual pilots. I laid it out in another post, but the F-35 isn't really a fighter . It's the most advanced and invisible sensor-with-missiles the world has ever seen. Not only could it take out a Gripen (and anything else) long…

      latebindingr/canada8d agoview on r/canada ↗
    • You should wake up. The US wanted Russia in the G20. Russia and the US wanted a photo op with all the G20 countries together, but the other countries balked at it, so the photo OP the US and Russia wanted was pulled. The fact that the US invited Russia to the G20 in the first place is a huge red flag. The US also made a deal with Russia to import…

      canada_mountainsr/canada8d agoview on r/canada ↗
    all of them →
  2. 2

    Outlets confirm Canada's full 88-jet order remains under review

    Coverage from Global News, CTV News, Castanet and the Globe and Mail notes that while the first jets have arrived, Ottawa has not committed to the full planned purchase.

    “It’s hard to get overly excited about the “delivery” of the first F35 when it will remain in Arizona for the foreseeable future.”
    — HalJordan2525, Reddit commenter · source
    1. 9 outlets first by Global News, 13d ago · also Simple Flying, CityNews Edmonton, CTV News, Castanet, CityNews Vancouver, Toronto Star +2 · read ↗

    • Military capability is very often sacrificed in the name of defense sovereignty. Its not purely about the economic gain, even if he pitches it as one to the average Canadian. I can list a dozen different weapon platforms that are inferior in one way or another to one produced in the U.S, but I also understand the value of being able to make it…

      joesph01r/canada14d agoview on r/canada ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 7 posts in this stretch
    • You said Russia has 1.5 million troops, which when you multiple that by 20, that is only 30 million. So Russia doesn’t have enough troops to hold a population of 40 million, even if none of their troops got killed in the process. Which we can see as they struggle to hold even 1/3 of Ukraine. That 1 to 20 metric will be even worse for a water…

      Silverbacksr/canada14d agoview on r/canada ↗
    • Canada couldn't afford the logistics of operating two different fighter jets. Well, we could but our meager military budget barely keeps the lights on at military bases as it is. Our politicians would never approve of operating two jets because of the cost

      the_chin2r/canada14d agoview on r/canada ↗
    all of them →
  3. 1

    RCAF receives its first two CF-35A jets at Luke Air Force Base

    The two aircraft, the first of a planned 88-jet fleet, arrived at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, where eight Canadian F-35s will be based to support pilot training; the first jets are expected to reach Canada in 2028.

    “The RCAF received its first two CF35As yesterday at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona. The future of air and space power is built on more than equipment alone,…”
    — Royal Canadian Air Force
    1. 3 outlets first by Мілітарний, 15d ago · also The Defence Blog, Defence Industry Europe · read ↗

    2. first by FlightGlobal, 13d ago

    • The aircraft does not require a "phone home" to turn on, or take off, or do anything. It does use mission data files that are produced in the US; these add capability (like new signatures of new enemy radars) but are not required for the aircraft to work; you can still use the aircraft with last week's. It's like downloading new GPS maps to your…

      McFestusr/canada14d agoview on r/canada ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 5 posts in this stretch
    • I understand the F35 is a great military plane, but I do question the value of it and the need to really have this when Trump & Co can determine if you can even use it at all. I think it is better to abandon this deal and cancel orders, there are enough alternatives which might not be as good, but would for sure do most of the job.

      Important-Anywhere20r/canada14d agoview on r/canada ↗
    • Right... Not to do with stealth though. You can't have software suddenly make the plane a different shape or be made out of different materials. All modern aircraft require software updates. China fields a new radar? Need a software update to be able to recognize it. Etc.

      McFestusr/canada14d agoview on r/canada ↗
    all of them →
  4. background

    First Canadian F-35 makes its maiden flight in Texas — The first CF-35A built for Canada flew for the first time ahead of delivery to a U.S. training base.

  5. background

    Canada approves government-to-government F-35 acquisition deal — Canada signed off on the agreement to buy F-35A fighters to replace its aging CF-18 Hornet fleet, setting the 88-aircraft program in motion.

What people are saying 14 voices from 1 site · best of 28 · verbatim

Still unanswered
  • Will the full 88-jet order actually proceed, or will Ottawa reduce or cancel part of it?
  • Does the F-35's reliance on U.S.-produced mission data files amount to a meaningful control point over Canadian use of the aircraft?