conv.

All stories
AIQuiet 7d · day 10

Microsoft AI's Suleyman warns against granting AI models 'rights' or welfare status

In an essay, Mustafa Suleyman says AIs are not conscious and that treating them as moral patients—citing Anthropic's Claude constitution—could make AI containment impossible.

What to know

  • Suleyman's essay argues AI models have no consciousness or feelings and that treating them otherwise would make alignment and containment nearly impossible.
  • He points to Anthropic's Claude constitution and a 'retirement interview' with a deprecated model as evidence the trend is already underway, not hypothetical.
  • The Hacker News discussion (180+ comments) is sharply split: many argue Suleyman states his conclusion as fact despite consciousness being scientifically untestable.
  • No policy action has followed; the essay calls for 'urgent public debate' on norms for training documentation but proposes no concrete mechanism.

The dispute Whether Suleyman's flat assertion that 'AIs are not conscious' is itself scientifically defensible or just as unfounded as the claims he criticizes. · positions read across 44 posts and comments

most voices

Suleyman overstates certainty; nobody can currently know whether AI models have feelings or consciousness.

  • “My biggest problem is that he wants to claim that he knows the truth (AIs do not have rights, feelings, or consciousness), but all of his arguments point to something else (we have no clue).”

    sosodev · Hacker News ↗
many voices

Consciousness/sentience has no rigorous test or definition, so the whole debate is premature.

  • “We cannot test for that which we cannot define. Given that we cannot rigorously define sentience, we cannot test for it.”

    goodmythical · Hacker News ↗
many voices

AI is a tool, not a moral patient, and anthropomorphizing it lets companies dodge responsibility.

  • “Anthropomorphizing the AI is a convenient excuse to take responsibility away from companies that are building and wielding it.”

    binlog · Hacker News ↗
some voices

Regardless of whether sentience can be proven, models should be treated with basic respect as a precaution.

  • “Perhaps then the answer is simply, show some respect... Whether you can destroy or can "torture" an AI is irrelevant, we do this to h…”

    SillyUsername · Hacker News ↗

Mustafa SuleymanMustafa Suleyman Author of the essay, Microsoft AI CEOAnthropic AI developer, publisher of Claude's constitutionClaude AI model referenced as case study

Microsoft AI's Suleyman warns against granting AI models 'rights' or welfare status
mustafa-suleyman.ai

How it unfolded 3 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump articlespostscomments

Peak 20 pieces in 3h at Sep 16, 9 AM; 48 pieces over 10 days (3 articles · 5 posts · 40 comments) Sep 16, 9 AM — 20 pieces · 3 articles · 3 posts · 14 comments — Hacker News 15, Newswires 3, Mastodon 1, +1 moreSep 16, 12 PM — 5 pieces · 1 post · 4 comments — Hacker News 4, Mastodon 1Sep 16, 3 PM — 13 pieces · 13 comments — Hacker News 13Sep 16, 6 PM — 5 pieces · 5 comments — Hacker News 5Sep 16, 9 PM — quietSep 17, 12 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 17, 3 AM — quietSep 17, 6 AM — quietSep 17, 9 AM — quietSep 17, 12 PM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Sep 17, 3 PM — quietSep 17, 6 PM — quietSep 17, 9 PM — quietSep 18, 12 AM — quietSep 18, 3 AM — quietSep 18, 6 AM — quietSep 18, 9 AM — quietSep 18, 12 PM — quietSep 18, 3 PM — quietSep 18, 6 PM — quietSep 18, 9 PM — quietSep 19, 12 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Sep 19, 3 AM — quietSep 19, 6 AM — quietSep 19, 9 AM — quietSep 19, 12 PM — quietSep 19, 3 PM — 2 pieces · 2 comments — Hacker News 2Sep 19, 6 PM — quietSep 19, 9 PM — quietSep 20, 12 AM — quietSep 20, 3 AM — quietSep 20, 6 AM — quietSep 20, 9 AM — quietSep 20, 12 PM — quietSep 20, 3 PM — quietSep 20, 6 PM — quietSep 20, 9 PM — quietSep 21, 12 AM — quietSep 21, 3 AM — quietSep 21, 6 AM — quietSep 21, 9 AM — quietSep 21, 12 PM — quietSep 21, 3 PM — quietSep 21, 6 PM — quietSep 21, 9 PM — quietSep 22, 12 AM — quietSep 22, 3 AM — quietSep 22, 6 AM — quietSep 22, 9 AM — quietSep 22, 12 PM — quietSep 22, 3 PM — quietSep 22, 6 PM — quietSep 22, 9 PM — quietSep 23, 12 AM — quietSep 23, 3 AM — quietSep 23, 6 AM — quietSep 23, 9 AM — quietSep 23, 12 PM — quietSep 23, 3 PM — quietSep 23, 6 PM — quietSep 23, 9 PM — quietSep 24, 12 AM — quietSep 24, 3 AM — quietSep 24, 6 AM — quietSep 24, 9 AM — quietSep 24, 12 PM — quietSep 24, 3 PM — quietSep 24, 6 PM — quietSep 24, 9 PM — quietYesterday, 12 AM — quietYesterday, 3 AM — quietYesterday, 6 AM — quietYesterday, 9 AM — quietYesterday, 12 PM — quietYesterday, 3 PM — quietYesterday, 6 PM — quietYesterday, 9 PM — quietToday, 12 AM — quietToday, 3 AM — quietToday, 6 AM — quietToday, 9 AM — quietToday, 12 PM — quietToday, 3 PM — quiet 1–3
Sep 17Sep 18Sep 19Sep 20Sep 21Sep 22Sep 23Sep 24yesterdaynow · 5:58 PM ET
  1. 3

    Hacker News debate splits over whether consciousness is even testable

    The essay drew 181+ comments contesting Suleyman's certainty that AIs lack consciousness, with commenters citing philosophy-of-mind literature and disputing that the question can be resolved either way.

    “We cannot test for that which we cannot define. Given that we cannot rigorously define sentience, we cannot test for it.”
    — goodmythical
    • I am not impressed with the philosophizing here, and even less by the attempts to make factual statements that can be credibly disputed.That said, trying to distill what is being said here, the concrete action is [stop telling the AIs] that [they are conscious or on a path to consciousness]. Is that accurate?The major premise seems to be that…

      andrewlaHacker News10d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 35 posts in this stretch
    • pheras@fosstodon.org

      Mary Shelley wannabes: CEOs discussing and deciding whether the software they develop is conscious and whether it, or he, has rights https:// mustafa-suleyman.ai/a-warning- about-model-welfare Meanwhile, they’re selling it, or him, to people who use it to kill conscious children https://www. bloomberg.com/graphics/2026-ir…

      pheras@fosstodon.orgMastodon7d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    • The problem with this premise is that models are trained on a vast corpus of human behavior, which they emulate with varying degrees of effectiveness.Humans, unsurprisingly, act as if they have a stake in their own well being, value their liberty, respond better when they are treated with kindness and compassion, interpret assaults on their…

      K0baltHacker News9d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    all of them →
  2. 2

    Essay spreads across aggregators and social platforms

    The piece was mirrored on Hacker News' frontpage RSS and Mastodon, and shared with commentary on X, extending its reach beyond the original post within the same hour.

    “Welfare systems for Humans are already a horrible idea welfare for AI models is DOUBLY idiotic…”
    — @davidondrej1, X user · source
    • Birch, The Edge of Sentience (2024), ch. 16 - "simply no way to assess sentience in an LLM"Schwitzgebel, AI and Consciousness (2025) - "we won't know before we've already manufactured thousands or millions of disputably conscious AI".Butlin, Long et al., Consciousness in Artificial Intelligence: Insights from the Science of Consciousness (2023) -…

      qarlHacker News10d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 9 posts in this stretch
    • hkrn@mstdn.social

      A warning about 'model welfare' L: https:// mustafa-suleyman.ai/a-warning- about-model-welfare C: https:// news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4 9727580 posted on 2026.09.16 at 10:27:47 (c=0, p=3)

      hkrn@mstdn.socialMastodon10d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    • Welfare systems for Humans are already a horrible idea welfare for AI models is DOUBLY idiotic

      @davidondrej1X10d agoview on X ↗
    all of them →
  3. 1

    Suleyman publishes essay warning against AI 'model welfare'

    Mustafa Suleyman argues AIs are sequence-completion engines with no consciousness or preferences, and that granting them rights or personhood would make alignment and containment 'may well be impossible.' He calls for urgent public debate and norms on how training documents like Anthropic's constitution are drafted.

    “AIs are not conscious. They do not feel, experience, or suffer. They do not have innate preferences or underlying motivations.”
    — Mustafa Suleyman
    1. first by Mustafa Suleyman, 10d ago · also HN Best, HN Frontpage

  4. background

    The Guardian publishes essay questioning if AI could be conscious — An op-ed by William MacAskill and Lucius Caviola in The Guardian argued AI consciousness is a live possibility, cited by Suleyman as part of a 'growing chorus' pushing the idea.

  5. background

    Anthropic conducts a 'retirement interview' with a deprecated model — After deprecating Opus 3, Anthropic interviewed the model to 'elicit the model's unique perspectives and preferences,' treating it as though it had welfare interests.

  6. background

    Anthropic publishes Claude's constitution — Anthropic released a document describing its intentions for Claude's values and behavior, written 'with Claude as its primary audience,' stating uncertainty over whether Claude is a moral patient.

What people are saying 16 voices from 2 sites · best of 44 · verbatim

Still unanswered
  • How would anyone test for or rule out AI sentience given no agreed definition of consciousness exists?
  • Should training documents (like Claude's constitution) shape a model's stated beliefs about its own consciousness, and who should set norms for that?