Lobsters debates whether plain-text files face extinction
A technical community argues over whether LLMs and mobile platforms will erode the universal plain-text interface that has existed for decades.
What to know
- An essay argued that plain-text files face extinction as smartphones and LLM-mediated interfaces erode their universal adoption, but the Lobsters community strongly disputed this premise.
- The core disagreement centers on whether LLMs reduce or reinforce reliance on plain-text formats: some argue agents hide file manipulation, while others counter that LLM adoption has made text formats more entrenched among programmers.
- A secondary concern emerged about mobile platforms deliberately restricting file access to enforce walled gardens, though this was partially disputed by reports of improving Android file handling.
- Commenters noted that plain-text editors require minimal maintenance burden and enjoy 50+ years of sustainability through hobbyist communities, making extinction unlikely even if professional adoption declined.
The dispute Whether LLMs reduce or reinforce plain-text formats: the essay and some commenters see LLM mediation as a threat to direct file editing, while others argue it has made text manipulation more central to how AI agents function. · positions read across 50 posts and comments
Plain-text files are too entrenched to abandon, especially among programmers who have the skills to maintain editors indefinitely.
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“That's extremely far-fetched, sorry. Is the thesis here that *literally all programmers* will switch to only interfacing with files indirectly, using LLMs?”
dzwdz · Lobsters ↗
LLM adoption has actually reinforced plain-text formats, not weakened them, because agents manipulate text files directly and output in plain-text formats.
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“If anything, I feel like LLMs have made plain text more important, at least for programmers. Many people switched from using IDEs to agents, which are adapt at manipulating plain text.”
andyc · Lobsters ↗
The concern is plausible given real trends toward walled-garden platforms and mediated interfaces that restrict user agency.
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“I think the platforms want everything API based to keep you locked into walled gardens.”
robalex · Lobsters ↗
awal Essayist / Lobsters userdzwdz Lobsters commenterandyc Lobsters commenterrobalex Lobsters commentermcherm Lobsters commenter
How it unfolded 11 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump postscomments
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11
Mcherm calls the entire premise absurd
Mcherm dismissed the concern as logically incoherent: the thesis requires imagining AI so powerful that programmers abandon all manual work, yet simultaneously so dumb that it forgets how to build text editors—which are "extremely simple" software.
“This is a ridiculous thing to be concerned about. First, you have to imagine that AI will become so incredibly effective and powerful that no one but a few hobbyists and historical reenactors will do ANY programming by hand. Second, you have to simultaneously imagine that AI is so incredibly dumb that it forgets everything that is already known about how to build text editors.”
— mcherm -
To be overly-fair, I keep thinking the 1990s *was* 20 years ago
2 more of the top 3 · 23 posts in this stretch
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It seems extremely far-fetched to me. People who dislike generate AI and vibe coding are very common.
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This is a ridiculous thing to be concerned about. First, you have to imagine that AI will become so incredibly effective and powerful that no one but a few hobbyists and historical reenactors will do ANY programming by hand, even just a few files. Second, you have to simultaneously imagine that AI is so incredibly dumb that it forgets everything…
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Dandellion describes Android metadata stripping; mdaniel disputes the cause
Dandellion reported that Android transparently mutates files and removes metadata during upload with no opt-out. Mdaniel countered that recent Android versions (Pixel 10 Pro, Android 17) don't exhibit this, and suggested metadata removal may be server-side for privacy/security reasons rather than OS-imposed.
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That was not the experience that I just had on my Pixel 10 Pro (Android 17) using both Firefox and Chrome The behavior you are describing sounds _much_ more like the *server* is stripping the metadata, not only for privacy reasons but also GitLab has had 2 exif attacks that I know of so I presume lots of folks just "nope" right out of that since…
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Awal clarifies the slippery-slope thesis; rau partially agrees
Awal acknowledged the pushback was justified but doubled down on the slippery-slope argument, framing it as a deliberate effort to raise alarm bells rather than a firm prediction. Separately, rau suggested the thesis wasn't "that far-fetched," noting that Windows, iOS, and Android sysadmins already don't manually edit config files.
“I'm posing a slippery slope argument so I understand the push-back. And if you don't wish to entertain that at all, that's understandable as well and you can ignore the rest of this comment.”
— awal -
There was a brief time when ordinary people started leaning html to make a web page. It was even taught in schools. That ended when myspace and facebook came along, which was about 20 years ago.
2 more of the top 3 · 5 posts in this stretch
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You cant even upload files to the web on android. If you upload a file that happens to be an image, through the normal file picker on the web, using the file picker on your phone, android will mutate the file and remove metadata transparently. With no way to opt out, no way for the browser to ask for permissions.
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But people do kinda use them like one would use a repl, don't they? I can imagine a paradigm shift where an LLM becomes a natural way to interact with a system, like the repl in smalltalk.
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Nsfmc cites Linux adoption among gamers and handheld users
A lower-scoring comment noted that plain-text toolchains and Linux are expanding in unexpected niches: gamers discovering Linux through Valve's Steam and newer handheld devices running distributions like Bazzite.
“You will have the files that the AI decides to show you.”
— Garbi, Commenter · source -
>I think you are underestimating the power of access to niche options. my only comment here is that they're not as niche as you might think. for one example, there's a whole community of "gamers" who are currently discovering linux and plaintext toolchains because valve's steam has made linux a palatable alternative to windows both on older…
2 more of the top 3 · 5 posts in this stretch
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People still open Word to Save As somewhere else instead of copying a file.
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> Even if you are just a systems administrator Shots. Fired.
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Robalex raises walled-garden mobile platform concerns
Robalex noted that files in general face pressure on mobile platforms: downloading and loading files into apps is "clunky" on Android, and mobile web browsers make downloads tricky. The comment suggested platforms prefer API-based interactions to keep users locked in.
“I think the platforms want everything API based to keep you locked into walled gardens.”
— robalex -
Yes. And as far as I can see, nobody has seriously suggested "we don't need text files because we have LLMs doing work" -- it's the exact opposite We use `.py .js .go` files for code, `.md .html` for docs, `.csv .json` for data, etc. LLMs basically guarantee those formats will live **forever** !!! They are never going away. If anyone suggested we…
1 more of the top 2 · 2 posts in this stretch
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Like other commenters I believe we will continue to be able to read and edit text files. However, the bulk of my online communication used to be plain text (on IRC) but now all of those communities have disappeared and their replacements are on Discord or another unpleasant web app.
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Laurentbroy argues maintenance burden is sustainable
Laurentbroy contended that even if only software engineers use plain-text editors, they are the people with the ability to maintain them—and it doesn't take a large team. The comment cited vi derivatives surviving 50 years and cited historical examples like enthusiasts running modern browser engines on old hardware.
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> I consider the novel, anthropologized terminology for these tools superfluous since the word "REPL" already sufficiently covers them. I don't like the anthropomorphized terminology, either. But please don't call them REPLs. REPLs have been deterministic, and these things are most certainly not that. I like your adaptation of the old saw about…
1 more of the top 2 · 2 posts in this stretch
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I think files in general are at risk. As an Android user the idea of downloading a file and loading it into an app is so clunky! I was recently trying to load my OPML subscriptions into a feed reader app and found mobile web browsers make downloads tricky. I think the platforms want everything API based to keep you locked into walled gardens.
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Simonw extends the pro-plaintext argument to non-programmers
Simonw added that the trend cuts across skill levels: non-programmer LLM power-users are learning what files are and why plain text and Markdown matter, contrary to the essay's premise that laypeople are abandoning plain text.
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Not just for programmers, either. Non-programmer LLM power-users are having to learn what files are, and why plain text and Markdown are useful formats.
2 more of the top 3 · 4 posts in this stretch
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That doesn't match my experience, I feel like most people I knew were comfortable opening Notepad/Wordpad on their PCs.
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I'm posing a slippery slope argument so I understand the push-back. And if you don't wish to entertain that at all, that's understandable as well and you can ignore the rest of this comment. Sans "literally", yes that is pretty much the thesis I am presenting here. So indeed I don't consider it extremely far-fetched. I suppose part of this is also…
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Andyc argues LLMs have made plain text *more* important
A contrary view emerged: that LLM adoption has actually reinforced plain-text formats. Andyc noted that many programmers switched from IDEs (which could theoretically substitute for plain text) to agents that manipulate plain text directly, and that LLMs output in plain-text formats like ASCII art rather than opaque binary formats.
“If anything, I feel like LLMs have made plain text more important, at least for programmers. Many people switched from using IDEs to agents, which are adapt at manipulating plain text.”
— andyc -
??? If anything, I feel like LLMs have made plain text more important, at least for programmers Many people switched from using IDEs -- where you could imagine the UI eventually substituting for plain text -- to agents, which are adapt at manipulating plain text I mean I guess it's true that the agents may hide the bash commands they're running…
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Dzwdz calls the extinction thesis "extremely far-fetched"
A high-scoring comment by dzwdz challenged the core thesis directly, asking whether the essay really claims all programmers will abandon direct file editing, including hobbyists and sysadmins who need to edit config files on broken systems. The comment invoked the practical barriers to such a shift.
“That's extremely far-fetched, sorry. Is the thesis here that *literally all programmers* will switch to only interfacing with files indirectly, using LLMs?”
— dzwdz -
> It's not far-fetched to assume that maintenance of plain-text editors and the ecosystem surrounding them will stop. That's extremely far-fetched, sorry. Is the thesis here that *literally all programmers* will switch to only interfacing with files indirectly, using LLMs? Including hobbyists, who might be working on low-level stuff? That…
2 more of the top 3 · 4 posts in this stretch
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I don't get the argument. Even if only software engineer edit plaintext file, then the one using them are the one with the ability to maintain software to edit them. It doesn't take a team of 2000 engineer to create a good text file editor. It take only a few dedicated enthusiast. If the world has enough such enthusiast to run a modern browser…
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But I've absolutely heard the phrase "plaintext markdown" etc. many times before.
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Technomancy and others dispute the historical premise
Commenters pushed back on the essay's claim that laypeople regularly used plain-text editors two decades ago. Technomancy said the last time they saw a layperson using plain text was in the 1990s, and dmcgrath disagreed with the timeline, noting most people they knew were comfortable with Notepad/Wordpad on PCs. Awal acknowledged the timeline may have been regional.
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Yeah. Even in late 90s I mostly saw people opening the whole freaking MS Word the moment they heard "text".
1 more of the top 2 · 2 posts in this stretch
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Ha, maybe I'm getting old, or maybe the timeline was different in different regions of the world.
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Awal argues plain-text files face existential risk
A Lobsters user published an essay contending that plain-text files—the "only real universal data interface we have had so far"—are at risk of abandonment. The argument centers on two trends: smartphones replacing desktops for mass users (who have "essentially forgotten about plain-text files"), and the rise of LLM-mediated interfaces that may make direct file editing obsolete even for programmers.
“Plain-text files, with their many encodings and layered formats, are the only real universal data interface we have had so far.”
— awal -
> Just 20 years ago, it was normal to use such editors regularly, even if you were a layperson. This does not reflect my experience; the last time I saw a layperson using plain text was in the 1990s.
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What people are saying 5 voices from 1 site · best of 50 · verbatim
- Will LLM-based agents eventually abstract away direct file editing entirely, or will they continue to expose and rely on plain-text formats?
- Are mobile platform restrictions on file access part of a deliberate strategy to enforce walled gardens, or are they unintended consequences of sandboxing architectures?
- Yesterday
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Just Monday I was at a conference. There was a presentation about a Linux desktop project deployed to civil servants. The devs had included a collaborative plain text editor almost by accident, mostly for their own use, in the installation. It turned out to be one of their most popular applications.
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Most EXIF metadata is preserved but Android does strip out location, which has obvious privacy benefits but also [causes problems](https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2026/04/android-now-stops-you-sharing-your-location-in-photos/) for legitimate needs.
- Sep 22
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> Is the thesis here that *literally all programmers* will switch to only interfacing with files indirectly, using LLMs? That doesn’t seem _that_ far-fetched to me. I don’t like it, at all, but it doesn’t seem crazy. > That sysadmins will never need to manually edit a config file on a machine with broken networking? Windows, iOS and Android…
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> But interest in plain-text editing has been fading for a while now. The footnote here links to the [google trend graph for "text editor"](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=text%20editor). I am not sure that's good proxy for "interest in plain-text editing".
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> By plain-text files, I mean notes.txt/md/ini/json/etc. Only one of those is plain text. Plain text means _unstructured_ text, not just non-binary. At least, that's been my impression across the globe the last >25 years in software.