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AIQuiet 12d · day 14

OpenAI publishes brief excerpts defending fair use for AI training

OpenAI released a compilation of court brief excerpts arguing that fair use supports AI development, as lawsuits over training data intensify.

newest coverage 12d agosummary written 12d ago16 pieces29 likes & upvotes54 comments NewswiresHacker NewsMastodonGoogle News

What to know

  • OpenAI compiled court brief excerpts to argue that fair use supports AI training, amid active litigation over training data rights.
  • Commenters contest the framing, questioning whether building a business model around fair use qualifies as fair use, and noting OpenAI benefits far more than the cited stakeholders.
  • The New York Times lawsuit includes claims of memorization—models reproducing entire articles—going beyond training data disputes to questions of output fidelity.
  • Fundamental disagreement persists on whether scale and commercial automation change fair use's traditional scope.

The dispute Whether OpenAI's scale and commercial model constitute fair use or exceed its traditional boundaries, and whether OpenAI genuinely represents a broad public benefit or primarily its own interests. · positions read across 12 posts and comments

most voices

OpenAI's commercial automation of fair use differs from fair use itself and overstates benefits to creators.

  • “Does building a business around the automation of fair use constitute fair use? I would say no.”

    erikschoster · Hacker News ↗
some voices

Fair use principles legitimately support AI training as a broader benefit to society.

  • “training an open weights AI on the outputs of an AI trained using "fair use", is itself "fair use" that benefits everyone.”

    zugi · Hacker News ↗

OpenAI AI company defending fair useThe New York Times Plaintiff in copyright lawsuit

How it unfolded 2 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump articlespostscomments

Peak 11 pieces in 4h at Oct 30, 7 PM; 16 pieces over 14 days (3 articles · 4 posts · 9 comments) Oct 29, 7 PM — 1 piece · 1 article — Newswires 1Oct 29, 11 PM — quietOct 30, 3 AM — quietOct 30, 7 AM — quietOct 30, 11 AM — quietOct 30, 3 PM — quietOct 30, 7 PM — 11 pieces · 2 articles · 1 post · 8 comments — Hacker News 9, Google News 1, Newswires 1Oct 30, 11 PM — 2 pieces · 2 posts — Mastodon 2Oct 31, 3 AM — quietOct 31, 7 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Oct 31, 11 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Hacker News 1Oct 31, 3 PM — quietOct 31, 7 PM — quietOct 31, 11 PM — quietNov 1, 2 AM — quietNov 1, 6 AM — quietNov 1, 10 AM — quietNov 1, 2 PM — quietNov 1, 6 PM — quietNov 1, 10 PM — quietNov 2, 2 AM — quietNov 2, 6 AM — quietNov 2, 10 AM — quietNov 2, 2 PM — quietNov 2, 6 PM — quietNov 2, 10 PM — quietNov 3, 2 AM — quietNov 3, 6 AM — quietNov 3, 10 AM — quietNov 3, 2 PM — quietNov 3, 6 PM — quietNov 3, 10 PM — quietNov 4, 2 AM — quietNov 4, 6 AM — quietNov 4, 10 AM — quietNov 4, 2 PM — quietNov 4, 6 PM — quietNov 4, 10 PM — quietNov 5, 2 AM — quietNov 5, 6 AM — quietNov 5, 10 AM — quietNov 5, 2 PM — quietNov 5, 6 PM — quietNov 5, 10 PM — quietNov 6, 2 AM — quietNov 6, 6 AM — quietNov 6, 10 AM — quietNov 6, 2 PM — quietNov 6, 6 PM — quietNov 6, 10 PM — quietNov 7, 2 AM — quietNov 7, 6 AM — quietNov 7, 10 AM — quietNov 7, 2 PM — quietNov 7, 6 PM — quietNov 7, 10 PM — quietNov 8, 2 AM — quietNov 8, 6 AM — quietNov 8, 10 AM — quietNov 8, 2 PM — quietNov 8, 6 PM — quietNov 8, 10 PM — quietNov 9, 2 AM — quietNov 9, 6 AM — quietNov 9, 10 AM — quietNov 9, 2 PM — quietNov 9, 6 PM — quietNov 9, 10 PM — quietNov 10, 2 AM — quietNov 10, 6 AM — quietNov 10, 10 AM — quietNov 10, 2 PM — quietNov 10, 6 PM — quietNov 10, 10 PM — quietYesterday, 2 AM — quietYesterday, 6 AM — quietYesterday, 10 AM — quietYesterday, 2 PM — quietYesterday, 6 PM — quietYesterday, 10 PM — quietToday, 2 AM — quietToday, 6 AM — quietToday, 10 AM — quietToday, 2 PM — quietToday, 6 PM — quiet 12
Oct 30Nov 1Nov 3Nov 5Nov 7Nov 9now · 8:09 PM ET
  1. 2

    Hacker News users contest OpenAI's framing

    The post gained traction on Hacker News with commenters challenging OpenAI's argument, raising concerns about scale, memorization, and the distinction between using fair use and building business models around its automation.

    “Does building a business around the automation of fair use constitute fair use? I would say no.”
    — erikschoster
    • oatmeal@kolektiva.social

      # openai v # nyt […] “The New York Times’ lawsuit, meanwhile, asks everyone to ignore a half century of legal history and progress, and toss aside the longstanding principle of fair use in their own narrow pursuit of an undeserved payday.” In other words, we should be allowed to learn from copyrighted articles and books without getting permission…

      oatmeal@kolektiva.socialMastodon12d ago6▲view on Mastodon ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 12 posts in this stretch

    • Fruitfulness of discussion might be aided by bearing in mind that US and European copyright law traditionally come from very different perspectives. Basically, societal utilitarianism vs work-is-an-inalienable-part-of-the-artist author's natural rights. "Copyright should last 5 years because starving keeps artists productive. And copyright owners…

      mncharityHacker News12d agoview on Hacker News ↗
    • nic221@techhub.social

      Fair use benefits everyone - Open AI https:// openai.com/index/fair-use-bene fits-everyone/ # AI # FairUse # copyright

      nic221@techhub.socialMastodon12d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  2. 1

    OpenAI publishes fair use defense compilation

    OpenAI released a page featuring excerpts from court briefs by creators, academics, accessibility advocates, and legal experts supporting fair use for AI training and innovation.

    1. 3 outlets Fair use benefits everyone

      first by OpenAI, 13d ago · also HN Frontpage, OpenAI News

What people are saying 9 voices from 2 sites · best of 12 · verbatim

Still unanswered
  • Does memorization of copyrighted works cross a legal line fair use doesn't cover?
  • What legal distinction, if any, exists between using fair use and building a commercial business model around its automation?